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Pakistan Politics and Religion in the Islamic State Staff Writer Saad Anis shares his views Interviewed by Sophia Barkat I was intrigued by Saad's article Islamic Law: the Taboo of Reconstruction: http://quietpoly.com/juryfury/debates/religionandstate/islamiclaw-thetabooofreconstruction.html So I decided to ask him some questions about the marriage between Islam, Politics and Social Life in Pakistan. Here is the interview: 1) You seem to say that Jinnah had no plans for Sharia. But was it not part of Jinnah's concept of a "Pakistan" or "Pure Land" -- as is the meaning of the word in Urdu/Hindi? Jinnah's Muslim League was instrumental in Pakistan's break from India in 1947. At least from Nehru's autobiography, it would seem that while Nehru and Gandhi were trying to win back India from the British, that Jinnah was focused on creating a land for Muslims separate of India -- i.e. Pakistan. A) Muhammad Ali Jinnah was, by all accounts, more British than Indian. He was a polished gentleman, a brilliant lawyer and was always seen wearing suits instead of the more sub-continental clothes. He is recalled by every historian, no matter of which lineage, as a man of honour. It was only natural that his political ideals were inspired from the British concept of democracy. I can say with confidence (and many might disagree) that the founding fathers never envisaged the imposition of Sharia in the country. They wanted a secular state where all would be free to practice their beliefs. Having said that, it is true that the Muslim League did use the slogan of Islam to garner public support. While Pakistan was founded on the basis of religious ideology, it was never intended to be ruled by Islamic Law entirely. An interesting observation in this regard is that all the religious parties (such as Jamaat-e-Islami, JUI etc.) opposed the partition of India, and branded Jinnah an infidel. 2) Would you characterize Pakistan as a place of growing Islamic Fundamentalism -- as is depicted in US Media? A) Ever since the advent of the Zia era, Pakistan has been a hotbed for extremism. Amazingly, this fanaticism was nurtured by the US itself, in order to produce "Jihadi fighters" to fight against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. The US financed all the madrassas (religious schools) in the country, encouraging them to produce kalashnikov-brandishing fanatics who would fight against the atheists. Statistics support this claim. From 1979 to 1989, the number of religious schools in Pakistan increased from 1000 to 3,891, courtesy a clandestine aid package from the infamous CIA of roughly US $ 20 billion. Those were the not-so-humble beginnings. Pakistan today is ridden by religious extremism. However, in recent years, concrete measures have been taken by the government, largely due to American pressure, to clamp down on religious fanatics. 3) Are Ulemas to blame? Who are called Ulemas? How do they rank in social/economical/political status? A) Yes, the so-called Ulema are to blame, albeit partly, for the scenario. They are responsible for creating intolerance amongst the masses, inciting them to lynch persons accused of theological irreverence. They are educated in madaaris, and are not versed in worldly knowledge. Most of them have a much distorted idea of religion, and subsequently misguide the masses. The exhortations of tolerance of the few learned scholars are inaudible. Socially, the Ulema do have a stronghold over the poor majority. The people look up to them for spiritual guidance, and this subservience is naturally, exploited by them to achieve political ends. Until the 2002 elections, the religious parties had never been able to perform well in the elections. However, they were always able to draw huge crowds to their congregations, and it was this street power that the governments in Pakistan always feared. In the 2002 elections, the religious parties rode high on the wave of anti-US sentiment in Pakistan, and did remarkably well, forming governments in two out of the four provinces. 4) Is Pakistan not facing another big crisis that is absorbed into this debate -- a high population growth rate coupled with poverty? In Bangladesh one of the roots of "ignorant Islam" as I call it is poverty and lack of quality public education. I'm of the second generation of women to attend schools. An entire generation of people -- the elders -- who are the "decision makers" in families, organizations and businesses are clinging on to values that my generation does not want. The influence of elders in villages is probably what is creating a cycle of ignorance in South Asia. It's a double-edged sword -- the way they expect the kids to be "pious" before "literate", sending them off to Madrasas. Not that Madrasas are teaching kids to be terrorists, as CNN might report, but that Madrasas are being run and taught by a bunch of half-educated Ulemas -- who are frugal and follow the Qu'ran literally, and have nothing but contempt for social customs that are non-Islamic. In fact, they don't even understand the Qu'ran half the time. Having been home-schooled with the Qu'ran, I'm familiar with the custom of having to listen to an idiot lecture you on what is pious and what is not. I seriously think such forms of forced education on children, before they are old enough to think for themselves, is part and parcel of our society and testament to the ignorance of our parent's generation. Do you not find this to be a factor affecting Pakistan? The religious ignorance of generations before us and after us? A) Yes, those are indeed serious problems for Pakistan. In fact, even in the article, I have suggested educational alleviation as a remedy for all our woes. In order for that to happen, we need to revamp our system of education. Madaris cannot just be wiped out of our system. What we require is to inculcate modern techniques of learning in these schools as well. Believe it or not, many religious schools still teach Euclid's books on mathematics, and Aristotle's philosophy! It is not merely religious ignorance, but the stagnation in cultural ideals which is affecting our society. Tribal Jirgas like the one which approved the public rape of Mukhtar Mai (June 2002) are not derived from theological history, but cultural past. Only intellectual enlightenment can help us overturn these obsolete traditions. 5) How do Ulemas affect who gets elected? Pakistan has a long lineage of Generals turned Presidents. Why is the military that is so used to violent takeovers scared of these Ulemas? A) The Ulema have always had great street power. Their uncanny ability to gather together massive protestors, is a hitherto inexplicable phenomenon. Very powerful military and political governments have always been hesitant of confrontation with theological parties, for fear of a severe public backlash. Moreover, they manipulate and motivate the masses into believing that their (the religious parties') agenda is harmonious with the spirit of Islam, and supporting them would be synonymous to fulfillment of a religious duty. 6) Do Ulemas have finance/weapons/grassroots activists? How are they financed? A) As I mentioned before, the extremists were initially funded by the US government against the Soviet invasion. The Pakistani intelligence agency, the ISI also played an instrumental role. After the collapse of the USSR, the ISI re-employed these organizations to fight against the Indian army in Kashmir. Hence, the religious parties were continuously supplied weapons and financial support, first by the US and then by the Pakistan government, to grind their own axe. In the process, however, the extremist organizations gained a lot of military might. Moreover, Pakistan also supported the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, for the purpose of having a friendly government installed there. Recently, the government has officially withdrawn all support for Kashmiri militants, although the critics remain skeptical. 7) What is Osama-bin-laden's connection to Pakistan's politics? A) Osama Bin Laden has no connection to Pakistan politics. However, he is linked with the Taliban, who were supported by Pakistan govt. before 9/11. In the 80s, however, Bin Laden was a key operative of the CIA and the Pakistan govt. in Afghanistan, recruiting and training fighters against Soviets. 8) Was Osama more popular before 911 or after? A) Unfortunately, the arrogance of the US post-9/11, and its attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq, has awarded hero status to the likes of Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. The Muslims world, quite rightly, was already resentful towards the US for its pro-Israel policy, and virtual silence at the slaughter of Palestinians. US actions post 9/11 served as a catalyst, and the people now look up to whoever stands up against the hegemonic US as a role model. Not a lot of people on the other side of the Atlantic are aware of this, but the number of innocent Afghanis killed in US operations is three times as much as the casualties of September 11. 9) What has changed since America's attack on Afghanistan as far as the influence of Ulema's on Pakistan's politics? A) Since 9/11, the Ulema, who before were capable of only shows of strength on the street, have won the votes of the people. This effect was particularly acute in NWFP and Balochistan, the two provinces which border Afghanistan, and where the religious parties did extremely well in the 2002 elections and formed a government. Since American attacks on Afghanistan, public support on the street for the religious parties has transformed into that in the ballot. 10) Is the Sharia the only law or is Pakistan frequented by martial law and how does this fair with the people? with Ulemas? A) No. 11) How do people react to Sharia? Martial Law? Ulemas? Is there a different reaction from different economic classes? A) Yes. There is a different reaction. Historically, to be fair, whenever martial law has been imposed by the army, it has been welcomed by the people, owing to the deteriorating state of affairs prior to it. However, all martial law administrators have shown the tendency to hang around driven by their lust for power, rather than national welfare. The educated classes have recognized that, and have thus always opposed a disruption in the democratic process. The imposition of Sharia is a complex affair. The fact that the religious parties have never received votes in the elections points to the fact that the people do not want the imposition of Sharia as the law of the land. However, a majority of Pakistanis do believe in leading their lives according to the Qu'ran and Sunnah, or at least aspire to do so. In my opinion, the people want Sharia law, but are so far unaware of the restriction that would thus be imposed on their lives, owing to stringent interpretations of Islamic law by myopic Ulema. The educated class doesn't want Islamic law at all. 12) Does American presence in Afghanistan and Middle East tend to unite people thereby making progress against Ulemas difficult? Are people trying to break free of Ulemas and religious law? A) The US campaign against terror, has created a feeling of resentment among Muslims all over the world. In a strange way, it has brought the Muslim populace of the world closer than ever in the past century. Predictably, the Ulema have used this to their advantage, channeling the public resentment to violence, to achieve their own ends. The abject poverty in the country has also helped a lot. So far, religious law has not been introduced in the country. The Shariat Bill approved by the assembly of one province is extremely basic, and merely a political manoeuvre rather than a serious attempt at imposing Islamic law. Sharia has never been imposed in Pakistan. 13) Are there many political parties in Pakistan and which are in favor of secular state? Which are not? Has the US/Europe been good pals of both sides? Who's more in favor? Why? A) There is no entirely secular party in Pakistan. All political parties, for political manoeuvring and public approbation, incorporate religion in their agenda in one form or another. Like politicians everywhere, they change their ideals according to opportunity. The western world has supported all forms of government and all schools of thought in Pakistan whenever it has suited them. They have been allies with military regimes (Ayub Khan, Pervez Musharraf), despots (Zia Ul Haq), political governments (Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, Benazir Bhutto) and religious fanatics (post Soviet invasion of Afghanistan; recall Rambo III). 14) What are the Public Offices one can get Elected to in Pakistan? And what kind of demographic representation do you see? Are they from religion-based political parties? How about minorities and women? A) One can get elected as a Member of National Assembly, Provincial Assembly. In the government, the federal cabinet is elected from amongst the members of national assembly by the majority party in the house, while provincial cabinet from amongst members of provincial assemblies. The Prime Minister is leader of the majority in the lower house. The President is chosen by the PM, and is titular. Nowadays, article 58 2(b) has been invoked, which gives the President the power to dissolve the elected assemblies at his discretion. This has rendered the PM impotent. The President and Prime Minister, according to the constitution, must be Muslims. Separate seats are reserved for women and the minorities. 15) What would you see are the primary causes of concern for Minorities in Pakistan, esp. post 911? Does this get much attention in public media? A) The minorities are justified in feeling concerned, as much of the Muslim world views the current scenario as a battle between religious ideologies more than anything else. As a result, minorities, especially Christians, have become the victims of flagrant extra-judicial killings. The media does cover this facet to some extent, but not sufficiently, in my opinion. 16) What would you say is the level of censorship of Pakistani Media? Are Newspapers more open than Television Networks? How does it work? A) To the credit of the current military regime, the media is freer than it has ever been in the history of Pakistan. Age-old taboos are being broken, and the government policies are being criticized without the fear of consequences. Television media is still largely State run, and thus is severely biased. However, the advent of private news channels, also introduced by the current regime, is changing that. Improvements can definitely be made, but we are heading in the right direction with regard to free press. 17) What are the types of education you can get in Pakistan? How do religious organizations control this? A) There are three systems of education in Pakistan. The matriculation system, O-A levels and the madaris. Most of the aware classes opt for either of the first two systems. An overwhelming majority of the elite, however, have to contend with sending their children to religious schools for want of finances. 18) Family planning and birth control are a huge taboo in Pakistan which was the last South Asian country to ask for help on this ground. Do you think this is largely due to religious ignorance or general ignorance? A) Both have contributed to it. While people have been hesitant to adopt such measures because of ignorance, the Ulema have also played their part in keeping them away from all sorts of reform. |
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